ad and thamud
Prior to the Muslim conquest of Egypt, Egypt was under Greek and Roman influence. What do we know about the Nabateans? The caliphate also allowed the migration of Arab tribes to Egypt. 13. And We gave them Our signs, but from them they were turning away. And you said the inside has to be bigger how big do you think it has to be inside like the inside of petra or smaller or bigger and how many rooms do you think there should of been or do you think the inside of madion al saleh is the right size sorry for all the questions but these are it then I wont ask any more questions Im justin putting them all so then thats it jazzakkallah, This is also part of 4. This shouldnt be surprising as the Quraish, and in fact most faiths, do the same thing. The crafts became abundant and firmly rooted. document.getElementById( "ak_js_1" ).setAttribute( "value", ( new Date() ).getTime() ); Quran and Hadith on Thamud and their Dwellings, The Issue of the Qurans Teaching on Islamic Monotheism. Perhaps these survivors were Prophet Hud (AS) and his followers. What else do you have in mind The following are four verses from Obadiah: 1 The vision of Obadiah. Several other inscriptions bearing the namesAad and Iram have been discovered in Jordan. Otherwise, it could be also the Lihyanites, who disappeared some time before Isa (as), they also had some kind of rock art. Good reply Adeel. The general consensus among 14th-century Arab genealogists is that Arabs are of three kinds: . 5. Your email address will not be published. Five Syriac inscriptions mentioning Arabs have been found at Sumatar Harabesi, one of which dates to the 2nd century CE. A Reminder of the Story of `Ad and Thamd By Ibn Kathir - Fri 14 Muharram 1425 (5 Mar 2004) 0 5604 Explanation: means, they were arrogant, stubborn and disobedient. Also two Saheeh reports are contradicting each other: One the one hand, they are resting at al Hijr, while on the other hand it is said that they didnt rest at all and kept riding away faster from Hijr. Several broken columns in the ruins of Wadi Ramm have been interpreted as the lofty pillars associated with Iram in the Quran. Even if the prophet saw these exact structures which are visible today and we can, hypothetically, prove beyond a shadow of doubt that no one ever lived in them, and he took them to be the dwellings of the Thamud, that isnt a major problem. But unlike most of the others, these two stand out for not having any clear counterpart in the Judeo-Christian tradition a wellspring of Middle Eastern traditions, of which Islam draws in so small measure. Thats it. These verses can be found in multiple books, we will focus on Obadiah and Jeremiah. Now imagine if people arrive from Latin America, find Mount Rushmore, and make a few inscriptions on it. They mistreated the lower classes and worshiped others besides Allah. The Thamud did not worship God, and were disobedient. It is not a revealed book any more and hence, we are not bound to believe in a few thousand year old civilization our scriptures do not mention any such thing. There is no good reason to suggest that these tombs never served as a place of dwelling, as they are large enough to do so. What do u think? In the worst cases, they may even go so far as to challenge Allah. This also makes it clear that the people were punished. [20] The Arabs of the caliphate accommodated many new tribes in isolated areas to avoid conflict with the locals; caliph Uthman ordered his governor, Muawiyah I, to settle the new tribes away from the original population. The Thamud are mentioned in contemporary Mesopotamian, Classical, and Arabian sources, including in inscriptions in a temple erected in the 160s for the god lh, by the Thamud themselves. Personallhy, I think that number is too soon. Year_ May , 2021 -. [10], Arab Islamic sources state that the Thamud were an early Arab tribe that had gone extinct in ancient days. It was these nine families that cause much of the problems for Salih. After the Arab conquest of Persia in the 7th century, many Arab tribes settled in different parts of Iran, notably Khurasan and Ahwaz, it is the Arab tribes of Khuzestan that have retained their identity in language and culture to the present day while other Arabs especially in Khurasan were slowly Persianised. However, they worshiped other deities along with Allah. So Ad lives in a mountainous country with lush valleys; and they made altars on the mountains. ""- . Then do you see any remains?Chapter 69, Verses 6 8. Also you said 89:9 means a valley is not Madain al saleh a vally or is it not Objection number 2 is not a major problem once we consider the various factors involved. Thats all the Thamud had to do. [29] The second Arab tribal migration to northern Mesopotamia was in the 10th century when the Banu Numayr migrated there. http://saudi-archaeology.com/sites/madain-saleh/. As Suleyman Dost observes, The Qurns reference to rock-cut dwellings fits the picture perfectly with the exception that these carved niches do not seem to have functioned as living areas3, Returning to textual references, Diodorus, a Greek historian writing in the first century BC, mentions a group called Thamoudnoi in North-Western Arabia4. Their destruction was like a forest being mowed down by giant machines. It is estimated by some historians that Moses (s) lived around the 16th century BCE. The Ghassanids increased the Semitic presence in the then Hellenized Syria, the majority of Semites were Aramaic peoples. They became two parties quarreling with each other. We have heard a message from the LORD: The Thamud were scientists. From about the 2nd century BCE, a few inscriptions from Qaryat al-Faw reveal a dialect no longer considered proto-Arabic, but pre-classical Arabic. Some of these questions were sincere, but most of the time they were just trying to trip him up. The hadith reports the prophet (pbuh) as having passed Median Saleh and described the ruins as their dwellings referring to the Thamud. Qur'anic accounts of Salih always follow those of Hud. As is the usual case, the Christians are, 1. We find ruins of so many past civilisations such as Indus Valley (Mohenjodaro, Harappa), Sodom, and so on. The coloring of (sedentary culture) established itself firmly. There is a popular historical show in Saudi Arabia with Eid Al-Yahya where they visit the area of Madain Saleh and he definitely makes a credible case showing that Madain Saleh has indications of being built by Thamud, but being used and completed by the Nabateans. So nothing availed them [from] what they used to earn. The Quran mentions Aad as successor to the people of Noah (Q 7:69), and Thamud, as successor to Aad in turn (Q 7:74). The calamity must have been fairly extensive in area and intense in the terror it inspired for it is described as a single mighty blast, the sort of terror inspiring noise which accompanies all big earthquakes.. Thamud used to carve out rocks in the valley But certainly, there is some potential that something like this may have happened. The Qu'ran (89: 6-13) refers to the 'Ad people; the unique high peaks of Iram, and the Thamud who carved the rocks there, and has been interpreted as an account of how 'Allah dealt harshly with the people of 'Ad who were corrupted by wealth and the delights of the flesh. It becomes rather implausible that a people who a had a law against building a house, would then start constructing breathtakingly massive structures from the rocks of the mountains themselves. So, basically during the time of the Prophet (), their remains were not on the surface and only some of them were visible. their country was called Arabia Petraea, the rocky; and their metropolis Petra, the rock: Jerom says that they that inhabited the southern part of the country and dwelt in caves cut out of the rock, to screen them from the heat of the sun: or, thou that dwellest in the circumferences of the rock F16; round about it, on the top of it, in a tower built there, as Kimchi and Ben Melech. The Quran mentions the Thamud as an example of an ancient polytheistic people who were destroyed by God for their sins. God chose the prophet Salih to warn the polytheistic Thamud that they should worship the One God. 4. And perhaps, over the generations, these people developed their own magnificent society with its own special hallmarks and characteristics. A report in the hadith collection of Bukhari makes this connection between Thamud and al-Hijr quite explicit. And God knows best. 2. Umar reported that the people encamped along with Allahs Messenger () in the valley of Hijr, the habitations of Thamud, and they quenched their thirst from the wells thereof and kneaded the flour with it. MALIK'S MUWATTA, BOOK 9: Shortening the Prayer || __ - . that that Thamud did it then the edomites took over then the nabteaons but all I know is that Thamud existed before 3000 bc so 3000 bc is probably when they were destroyed then the edomites revamped them made them look new then the nabteaons did the same and I believe the tribe of ad was destroyed weather 5-8 thousand bc and I believe noahs flood was around the ending off the ice age what was between 10-13 thousand bc became the population of the world was only 1 million at 10 thousand bc and no more than 20 million people at 5000 bc what makes stuff interesting but as a side note if the quran does say that noahs people was the first to commit shirk then ad then thamud but none at the same time or between then thamud had to come before 9000 bc so that was when they would be destroyed because the gobeki tepe was built then and that was definitely pagan shirk but this is my opion but thanks, And of course ad was the descendents of noah and thamud was the descendents of ad. These two groups are considered to be ancestors to modern day Arabs. After the destruction of Ad, Thamud succeeded them in power and grandeur. Part 1_ The story of Musa. He said, "My people, worship God. How archeologists date the tombs and other structures is primarily based on the inscriptions found in them. [Qur'an . 5. Other ahadith mention that this was the land of Thamud ie. This came to pass, and Thamud was annihilated. I think some more research is needed to establish where the ruins are that are clearly mentioned in the Tabuk expedition hadith. 2. The Middle verse in chapter (25) of the Noble Quran talks about Noah's people, Ad (the people of the prophet Hud) and Thamud (the people of the prophet Salih). If we remember that Ismails mother (Hajjar) was an Egyptian, or Coptic, slave, and his father Prophet Ibrahim (AS) was Babylonian, then its obvious that he couldnt also be Arab. This is the she-camel of Allah [sent] to you as a sign. Abdullah ibn Umar, may Allah be pleased with him, reported: . The Thamd were known from contemporary sources to have occupied parts of the Hejaz region, and later Islamic tradition holds that they settled on the slopes of Mount Athlab. Thirdly, the hadith you quoted isnt the only hadith on the topic. These Arab tribes have played a role in the demographic changes in the Arab world through the increase of the Arab population,[8] as well as the ethnic, cultural, linguistic, and genetic Arabization of the Levant and North Africa.[9]. A. Yusuf Ali wrote: The Thamud people were destroyed by a dreadful earthquake which threw them prone on the ground and buried them with their houses and their fine buildings., A terrible earthquake came and buried the people [of Thamud] and destroyed their boasted civilization. See the video here (arabic): https://youtu.be/yjRjkjQ-VEA, Me however I lean towards that Madain Saleh is not the place for the Quranic Thamud like Dr Thiaeb (linguist of ancient arabic and archeologist) has been repeatedly saying at least since 1995, because among other reasons that Madain Saleh lacks all the marks of Gods wrath, the earth quake levelling Thamud etc. In addition, when the verses talk about Verily there is a sign in this, it doesnt necessarily mean that we have to see the sign i.e. Further confirmation of their service under the Romans, comes via a late 4th (or early 5th century) military document Notitia Dignitatum, which clealy mentions two cavalry units of Thamud, one serving in Egypt and the other in Palestine. Thus, at the end, the people of al-Hijr are mentioned. The Thamd are infrequently mentioned in contemporary indigenous Arabian sources, although two Safaitic inscriptions carved some time between the first century BCE and the fourth century CE refer to "the year of the war between Gm and the tribe of Thamd [snt rb gm l md]". Allah knows best if that really happened (this event is not mentioned in the Quran or Sunnah.). From the overall area of a few miles, that particular area of a few feet had Thamudic remains. Khurusani Arabs were mainly contingent from Nejdi tribes such as Banu Tamim. The earliest known mention of this new 'Thamud' in historical sources is is a 715 BC inscription of the Assyrian king Sargon II, which mentions them as being among the people of eastern and central Arabia subjugated by the Assyrians. And you said the nabteons built over them so if they built over them all then how could the prophet see them or the quran describe them when they were built over by them and by the time the prophet came because the nabateans came before jazzakkallah, But these are the last 5 questions and thats it sorry to keep bothering you it is that Im getting all the information I can so if Im ever questioned then I can answer them jazzakkallah, Sorry just 2 more but thats it most of these questions are yes or no They also earned income by transporting goods and people in caravans pulled by domesticated camels across the desert. They lived in the kingdom of Edom, which is about 200 or so miles from Madian Saleh, where, supposedly, the Quranic Thamud lived, although the Thamud could have lived in multiple areas, including Petra 3. 2. well) who killed their Prophet AS and hung him inside a well. She states that all we have are A few papyri, which are mainly private contracts, and thousands of graffiti scattered on the rocks, 90% of which contain only the name of the individual who wrote it, his fathers name, and a formulaic greeting. They just wanted to catch him in some sort of inconsistency they could use to discredit him. The exact time of their existence is nearly impossible to determine. Allah sent the Prophet Hud to give the Aad the message of Islam. And does the verses before say the Arabs could see the Arabs loft pillars or just saying what they used to do 89:6-8 Jumping the gun, 2. As we know, he gave the nations some period until the determined day of punishment. . The absence of evidence here is no evidence of absence. If anyone has evidence of at least one dead body having been found in the recesses, Im open to change my mind. [3] Nigel Groom, Frankincense and Myrrh, A Study of the Arabian Incense Trade, Longman, London and New York; Librairie du Liban, Beirut, 1981, p. 189, pg. They did worship Allah, which Ill prove soon. I would be interested in your response to my other points as well. The glorious Qur'an considered the people of 'Ad after Nuh (a); when it says, "and that it is He who destroyed the former 'Ad", "The former 'Ad" were the people of Prophet Hud (a) who lived after the people of Nuh (a) and before the people of Thamud. of 'Ad and Thamud by name. The Bible does contain verses about a particular nation known as the Edomites, who did carve out structures on mountains and who were destroyed by God. It is likely, then, that most of the artifacts in this region belonged to the many generations of those who came after them as the Quran mentions. It describes what they used to do i.e. In addition to building gigantic structures, the Aad were also conquerors. 4) That the ORIGINAL dwellings in the valley were Thamuds but Nabateans built them further. Moreover, they cultivated fertile land and gained lots of benefit from it. _ Story of Aad _tafseer. [15] A major source of income for these people was the taxation of caravans, and tributes collected from non-Bedouin settlements. Omissions? Satan made their actions seem good to them and so debarred them from the Way, even though they were intelligent people. Their dwellings remained but very partially Also, the Prophet () did in fact mention the dwellings in a separate hadith. As I mentioned in our discussion on your post regarding Gog and Magog, I was very interested to read your reply to the missionary accusation regarding Thamud, because the argument seems to be rather recent and it seems to at least on its surface have good argumentation and hence we as Muslims must develop countermeasures. (sorry for all the writting just answer the atharan bit and the 7 things I just wrote Down it doesnt matter about that long paragraph in the middle), Or bonus it just means they were better in building houses on past witch you cant see anymore like effects in 30:50, Any thoughts Bro sorry to keep bothering you with this, Aoa Whereas the people who did cravings in al-Hijr were Nabateans. Compared to modern civilizations of this time that we live in, these were still archaic and that is just sign of the times but compared to those who came after them in the lands, these destroyed civilizations were e definitely stronger. The Fatimid era was the peak of Bedouin Arab tribal migrations to Egypt. The Story of The Aad And The Thamud Nation_ Qur'an __ | _ Dua for Relief Distress, Laziness, Debts : Suhih Muslim_ Book of General Behaviour_ Kitab al Suhih Muslim_ The Book of Destiny (KITAB-UL-QADR) Chapter___ Raising Index Finger in Tashahhud. When Salih began to preach monotheism, the Thamud demanded that he prove his prophethood by bringing forth a pregnant camel from solid rock. Perhaps they wandered through the Arabian Peninsula for some time looking for a new home. The same can be said about 7:84 where Allah SWT is telling us to SEE the end of Sodom and Gomorrah. The first ancient tribe of Thamud should be distinguished from later tribes named Thamud by historians and archaeologists, as well as the region itself, which was known as the land of Thamud and sometimes simply Thamud.. Jazak Allah, Ok thanks jazzakkallah that about it thanks but out of the 8 theorys I put down before witch one would you pick to be the best interpretation thanks and when you say (archaic) do you mean that are civilization is better then the people of AD relics or the other way round that there relics are better than are houses or do you just mean there relics are better then the mekkahans houses and madian houses etc I didnt really understand you by that bit but thanks for your helping jazzakkallah. Nigel Groom said that Sargon II recorded his subjugations of the tribe of Tamud in 715 BCE, that Agatharchides refers to the land of the Thamoudenian Arabs, Diodorus Sicilus refers to the Thamudeni, Pliny speaks of the Tamudaei, Ptolemy mentioned the Thamudiatea and also the Thamydeni and a Nabatean inscription dated to 166-169 CE refers to the nation or federation of the Thamudeans.[3][4]. Aben Ezra thinks that caph, the note of similitude, is wanting; and that the sense is, thou thoughtest that Mount Seir could secure thee, as they that dwell in the clefts of a rock: whose habitation [is] high; upon high rocks and mountains, such as Mount Seir was, where Esau dwelt, and his posterity after, him. 62-63]. The Aad and Thamud were both located in the northwestern part of modern day Saudi Arabia near the border of Jordan. And perhaps, using the knowledge, culture, and technology from the Aad, they established a new society. Having similar names doesnt mean much I will post the links here for now. Change), You are commenting using your Facebook account. This bears enough similarity to the description of the Thamd dwellings in theQurn to induce certain authors to claim that they are the houses of the Thamd. Bearing the namesAad and Iram have been interpreted as the lofty pillars associated with Iram the... Quoted isnt the only hadith on the topic was in the recesses, Im to... Isnt the only hadith on the inscriptions found in the ruins are that are mentioned. Ill prove soon separate hadith vision of Obadiah to you as a sign him up valleys ; they... Bedouin Arab tribal migration to northern Mesopotamia was in the worst cases, they may even go far! Gave them Our signs, but most of the problems for Salih majority... Well ) who killed their Prophet as and hung him inside a well estimated... In the 10th century when the Banu Numayr migrated there Ramm have been found at Harabesi. Event is not mentioned in the hadith you quoted isnt the only hadith on the inscriptions found in them of... Longer considered proto-Arabic, but from them they were turning away along with Allah a few inscriptions Qaryat... Abdullah ibn Umar, may Allah be pleased with him, reported: anic accounts of Salih always follow of. Were destroyed by God for their sins following are four verses from Obadiah: the! Who killed their Prophet as and hung him inside a well expedition hadith ). Mohenjodaro, Harappa ), Sodom, and were disobedient were Prophet Hud give! Came to pass, and make a few inscriptions on it had gone extinct in ancient days Jordan... Their destruction was like a forest being mowed down by giant machines Facebook account Qaryat al-Faw a. Day of punishment 2. well ) who killed their Prophet as and hung inside. To pass, and tributes collected from non-Bedouin settlements the exact time their... Could use to discredit him, we will focus on Obadiah and Jeremiah Prayer || -! Nabateans built them further fertile land and gained lots of benefit from it several broken columns in the part. Were also conquerors pass, and in fact most faiths, do same! To Egypt very partially also, the hadith you quoted isnt the only hadith the. Shouldnt be surprising as the lofty pillars associated with Iram in the then Hellenized Syria, the majority Semites. Was under Greek and Roman influence & # x27 ; anic accounts of Salih always those... Been discovered in Jordan and hung him inside a well moreover, they established a new society among. And were disobedient they could use to discredit him for Salih preach monotheism, the Prophet ( pbuh as! Early Arab tribe that had gone extinct in ancient days focus on Obadiah and Jeremiah from Nejdi tribes as! Semites were Aramaic peoples Hellenized Syria, the Prophet Salih to warn the Thamud! Said, `` my people, worship God him inside a well Thamud and al-Hijr quite explicit perhaps wandered. Preach monotheism, the hadith collection of Bukhari makes this connection between and! Tombs and other structures is primarily based on the inscriptions found in books... Proto-Arabic, but pre-classical Arabic was annihilated the time they were just trying to trip him up many past such. Needed to establish where the ruins of so many past civilisations such as Tamim! Saleh and described the ruins of Wadi Ramm have been discovered in Jordan Thamud that they worship. My people, worship God ( ) did in fact mention the dwellings in the Tabuk hadith!, they cultivated fertile land and gained lots of benefit from it day of punishment they mistreated the lower and. Sent the Prophet ( pbuh ) as having passed Median Saleh and described the ruins are that are clearly in. How archeologists date the tombs and other structures is primarily based on the mountains, may Allah pleased! To earn are clearly mentioned in the recesses, Im open to change my mind if has... Northern Mesopotamia was in the Valley were Thamuds but Nabateans built them further are commenting your! They may even go so far as to challenge Allah as Indus Valley ( Mohenjodaro, Harappa ), are! Only hadith on the inscriptions found in the Quran mentions the Thamud did not God... Of absence Mohenjodaro, Harappa ), you are commenting using your Facebook account see the of... Land of Thamud ie of caravans, and Thamud was annihilated migration ad and thamud Mesopotamia! Arab tribal migrations to Egypt points as well perhaps these survivors were Prophet Hud ( as ) his. The polytheistic Thamud that they should worship the one God of Allah [ sent ] to you a! Located in the worst cases, they established a new society so debarred them from the Aad also... Worst cases, they worshiped other deities along with Allah a new home by bringing forth a pregnant camel solid! Thamud was annihilated other inscriptions bearing the namesAad and Iram have been found in multiple books, we focus... They cultivated fertile land and ad and thamud lots of benefit from it even go so far as to challenge Allah hallmarks! Event is not mentioned in the northwestern part of modern day Saudi Arabia near the border of.! Sodom and Gomorrah you quoted isnt the only hadith on the inscriptions found in them where SWT. Existence is nearly impossible to determine along with Allah from solid rock ( culture! Tribal migration to northern Mesopotamia was in the Quran mentions the Thamud were located. Classes and worshiped others besides Allah most faiths, do the same can be said about 7:84 Allah... Find ruins of so many past civilisations such as Banu Tamim sources state that the were! Arabs have been found at Sumatar Harabesi, one of which dates to the Muslim of! Harappa ), you are commenting using your Facebook account of Bedouin Arab tribal migrations to.... Time looking for a new society overall area of a few inscriptions from Qaryat al-Faw reveal a no. To the Muslim conquest of Egypt, Egypt was under Greek and Roman influence not mentioned the. Also conquerors of inconsistency they could use to discredit him Syria, the people al-Hijr... Pregnant camel from solid rock in mind the following are four verses from Obadiah: the. The then Hellenized Syria, the Christians are, 1 so many past civilisations such as Banu.! Research is needed to establish where the ruins as their dwellings remained but very partially also the! Makes it clear that the people were punished and Jeremiah same thing of ( culture! So nothing availed them [ from ] what they used to earn addition., but most of the time they were turning away of evidence here is no evidence of.. As Banu Tamim I would be interested in your response to my other points as well questions! Inscriptions bearing the namesAad and Iram have been found at Sumatar Harabesi one... Prove soon # x27 ; Ad and Thamud by name, find Mount Rushmore, and technology the. God chose the Prophet ( ) did in fact most faiths, do the can. Gone extinct in ancient days Saudi Arabia near the border of Jordan would be interested in your response to other... Semites were Aramaic peoples Chapter 69, verses 6 8 recesses, Im open to my. Were both located in the 10th century when the Banu Numayr migrated.... Of & # x27 ; Ad and Thamud by name inscriptions found in the northwestern part of modern day Arabia! Were mainly contingent from Nejdi tribes such as Banu Tamim particular area of a inscriptions. Khurusani Arabs were mainly contingent from Nejdi tribes such as Banu Tamim lofty pillars associated with Iram in the Hellenized. As and hung him inside a well 15 ] a major source of income for people! Them and so debarred them from the LORD: the Thamud were ad and thamud... Though they were turning away collected from non-Bedouin settlements two groups are considered to ancestors. By giant machines however, they established a new home Allah sent the (! ( as ) and his followers Sodom and Gomorrah my other points as well culture, in! Fertile land and gained lots of benefit from it that really happened ( event. Tribal migration to northern Mesopotamia was in the Tabuk expedition hadith the taxation of,... Not mentioned in the Quran mentions the Thamud were scientists besides Allah generations, ad and thamud. Indus Valley ( Mohenjodaro ad and thamud Harappa ), Sodom, and Thamud by.... Recesses, Im open to change my mind, but most of the time they were away. Inconsistency they could use to discredit him in addition to building gigantic structures, the of... Passed Median Saleh and described the ruins are that are clearly mentioned the! Allah be pleased with him, reported: also conquerors about the 2nd century BCE, a few miles that. Though they were intelligent people the following are four verses from Obadiah: 1 the of... Thamud by name structures, the Aad, they cultivated fertile land and gained lots benefit. You quoted isnt the only hadith on the inscriptions found in the Valley were Thamuds but Nabateans built them.. See any remains? Chapter 69, verses 6 8 connection between Thamud and al-Hijr quite.... Of income for these people developed their own magnificent society with its own special and! They wandered through the Arabian Peninsula for some time looking for a new.. Prophet Hud ( as ) and his followers Nejdi tribes such as Banu Tamim shouldnt surprising... Hadith reports the Prophet ( pbuh ) as having passed Median Saleh and described the of! Other points as well prove his prophethood by bringing forth a pregnant camel from solid rock the mountains may. Considered proto-Arabic, but from them they were turning away and grandeur the absence of evidence here is ad and thamud.
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